Jonathan Warren: 0:00

Elvis comes in, and he's playing with a orchestra at the Last Frontier, across the street from Liberace but he bombs. And by the third day they're about done with him. He's not the Elvis we know later. His style is very much rockabilly and gospel. He doesn't have the dancing style yet that gets him in trouble on TV later. He doesn't have the costuming at all yet, when he first comes to Vegas. Colonel Tom Parker asked Liberace to come to the show and critique it. And he sat in the audience, watched the show, came to see them afterwards, and the famous quote was,"The act needs more glitz, kid."

Heather: 0:34

Evel Knievel inspired millions of us with his courage and perseverance. We're building a museum so you can relive those memories and be reinvigorated with that spirit of bravery.

Evel Knievel: 0:46

My name is Evel Knievel. I'm a professional daredevil.

Heather: 0:50

Along the way, we meet people involved in the life, the times, and the legacy of the King of Daredevils. Here with their stories is your host, Joe Friday.

Frank Gifford: 1:02

...and he will go.

Joe P: 1:05

Hey, greetings from the Liberace Garage. This is Jonathan. He's the director.

Jonathan Warren: 1:10

Hello.

Joe P: 1:11

I've never been here before, but welcome. Yeah, thank you, It's really nice of

Jonathan Warren: 1:16

It's good to have the Evel Knievel, representative in the house.

Joe P: 1:20

We're in front of Liberace's ultra patriotic car here. Yes

Jonathan Warren: 1:23

Yes. Yes, this is the'52 rolls Royce Silver Dawn that he uh used in his 1976 Bicentennial show and then later he used it in his show celebrating the hundredth anniversary of the Statue of Liberty, also. So, yeah, a great patriotic paint job on there that he had to get permission for from Rolls Royce, actually. Which is

Joe P: 1:48

typical. You had to get permission from Rolls Royce to change the paint job?

Jonathan Warren: 1:52

That's the general idea if you want to keep a good relationship with Rolls Royce, yes. Yeah. and so he

Joe P: 1:57

did. Did they give him the car?

Jonathan Warren: 1:59

No. He bought the car he didn't buy it new in 52. He bought it in the 1970s and painted it. It was originally green, and he painted it the red, white, and blue.

Joe P: 2:08

How did you become acquainted with the Liberace museum?

Jonathan Warren: 2:12

I became acquainted with it because I grew up in Las Vegas. Same way I became acquainted with Evel Knievel. If you grow up in Las vegas, you're going to know, these two guys, so, this is, this was he was always so prolific. Even when I was a kid.

Joe P: 2:24

Did your parents take you to Liberace shows? Evel

Jonathan Warren: 2:27

Knievel? Nope. Neither one. Just television, all the time. You see them all on television all the time. And both on the news, as well as on advertisements for whatever shows or promotions were going on for whatever they were doing. You

Joe P: 2:41

constantly. yeah. Liberace created, he created the Las Vegas show that we think of today, that we see today. today. That's accurate. Whether it's Celine or Adele or probably even

Jonathan Warren: 2:51

Garth Brooks. And I think just about all of those people will tell you The Las vegas Weekly in 2013 even said that all, virtually all, of modern showmanship is traceable to or through Liberace, because there's so many techniques he creates that work so well that everybody, of course, uses them.

Joe P: 3:08

Yeah, one of them on the television show, I was surprised to see, is the dancing waters.

Jonathan Warren: 3:12

Ha Yeah, it's fun to tell people the fountains at Bellagio were started behind Liberace on stage at the Las Vegas Hilton. That's where

Joe P: 3:20

it's generated from. Yeah, that's no joke. It's not an exaggeration to say that. They look like the Bellagio

Jonathan Warren: 3:26

It is the same mechanism, it's the same motion, and it is the same company that built both.

Joe P: 3:33

Yeah. I mean that one, he says on the show that it's a person backstage that's pulling levers on it like the Wizard of Oz. Yeah, originally it was. He had what, was like a water dJ who would manipulate the fountains to go with whatever he was playing. and knew what he was going to play. But he later, they advanced it so that it would go automatically to the music. And So that was also during his tenure with the Dancing Waters

Jonathan Warren: 3:57

show.

Joe P: 3:57

We also give a lot of credit for bling. Yeah. for Panaz,

Jonathan Warren: 4:01

for everything. Yeah. Bling, as they call it now, was really something he invented. And I think he elevated it to glitz, where it's the whole overall feeling of that sort of over the top fashion and luxury, for the fun of it. It's

Joe P: 4:14

definitely a liberace product. And it became, part of the Vegas show.

Jonathan Warren: 4:17

And Did he have showgirls in his show too? He did. He, In fact, he was the first to take showgirls on

Joe P: 4:22

in Las Vegas.

Jonathan Warren: 4:24

Back

Joe P: 4:24

What? Back in the 1940s. yeah. Are you telling me there weren't shows with just showgirls? Liberace brought them.

Jonathan Warren: 4:30

That's right. That's right. Showgirls in the way you think of them in las vegas really begin in Las Vegas right at the beginning of the 1950s, and especially takes off in 1959. And that's because of the French production shows. French production shows are the reason why, Las Vegas had topless showgirls that were mainstream shows, all up and down the Strip. And no other city in the country had that going on. And those shows all came from France. They were licensed to play here. So you had Casino de Paris beginning in 1963. Lido de Paris, folies Bergère, Crazy Girls, all came from Paris. That's where the showgirls really become a big part of the Las Vegas Strip. And the first ones on stage are with

Joe P: 5:14

Liberace frontier Hotel.

5:17

Where

Joe P: 5:17

was the Frontier Hotel?

Jonathan Warren: 5:18

The Last Frontier, it was where, it is right now an empty lot. Between right next to the Fashion Show Mall, and right across the

Joe P: 5:28

street

Jonathan Warren: 5:28

from the Wynn. Wynn So It was originally the Last Frontier, then later it became the

Joe P: 5:33

New Frontier.

Jonathan Warren: 5:34

And then it was the frontier.

Joe P: 5:36

Okay.

C0227 Camera Interview: 5:36

one.

Jonathan Warren: 5:38

went from last to

Joe P: 5:38

new to just

Jonathan Warren: 5:40

to just the lot. Showgirls he brought.

Joe P: 5:42

And

Jonathan Warren: 5:42

then he brought a presence To himself, to the performer himself. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And that relationship with the audience that was so key to Las Vegas success in that era. The showroom where the performer is interacting with the audience, has a relationship with the audience, talks to the audience, and the audience feels like they know him. It has them coming back many times to see the same show, which they don't do in so much in today's era, where the show is much more removed from the audience. That was a key

Joe P: 6:15

to that success in that era. The Frontier must've had a showroom there. At some point he moves to the International Theater.

Jonathan Warren: 6:22

He moves from the Last Frontier, he moves across the street in 1955 to the, in april of 55 he cuts the ribbon at the riviera across the street. So the Riviera, or down the street really, becomes the location of the first ever residency show. And that's Liberace in the Clover Room Theater there in 1955. And that is a huge success. He's the highest paid entertainer in the world at that point. at 50 thousand dollars a week. it's only a 750 seat

Joe P: 6:48

theater. So,

Jonathan Warren: 6:49

that's quite the accomplishment. 50, 000

Joe P: 6:52

50 thousand dollars

Jonathan Warren: 6:52

week a 750 seat theater. He goes from there later to several other places he plays. But in 1972, he signed at what had been the International. and had just changed names to the Las Vegas hilton. And Baron Hilton had taken it over. And he was signed to play, to be residency there in the off months from Elvis in same showroom. So he and Elvis played the same showroom from 1972 to 1977 most people don't realize that.

Joe P: 7:19

You can really understand how the relationship with the audience works when you

Jonathan Warren: 7:23

understand that it's only 750 seats. Yes, exactly. And you realize also, they're obviously overpaying him. I'm sure, I don't have the earnings what the theater was, I'm sure it wasn't 50, 000 dollars a week that they were netting. What they were doing was having Liberace on that marquee to fill the hotel,

Joe P: 7:41

which filled

Jonathan Warren: 7:42

the casino, which filled the the pockets. And

Joe P: 7:45

model still exists. He wasn't like a grab everything you can guy at the time. I understand it is 50

Jonathan Warren: 7:52

Always a very generous personality, always supporting the community. He was a real Las Vegan. He really supported the arts here back before that was a cool thing to do. He's talking about it back in 1975, he's talking about it on camera on a tV special celebrating the birthday of las vegas. He's talking about the different ballet companies we have and so forth. and he's touting the arts in Las

Joe P: 8:13

Vegas

Jonathan Warren: 8:14

back

C0227 Camera Interview: 8:14

when

Jonathan Warren: 8:14

nobody was touting the arts the arts in Las Vegas.

Joe P: 8:16

And established a scholarship for what, young artists?

Jonathan Warren: 8:19

Many. I mean to this day, there are endowment funds at over a dozen universities that were lodged there by the Liberace Foundation, and they still give away Liberace scholarships every year. They're not huge, they're, but they're scholarships meant to help people in the performing and creative arts. And there are many of those around the country still today. He was generous with his advice to up and coming stars. Yeah, very much. I think he was so Yeah. I think he had so much experience in what it takes to practice like that, to be so completely immersed in years and years of practice. don't think he ever worried about anybody being able to copy his act. So he didn't really have any trade secrets. He would happily tell anybody how he did what he did, and know that it wouldn't be something that would hurt his ability to continue doing it. He was very confident that way. And a lot of people over the years have told me the things that he did to help them. Including Siegfried and Roy, in fact. They were friends of Liberace, of course. Siegfried used to tell me that when they came to Las vegas, he was astounded to find that Liberace spoke to them as equals in 1970. He felt so empowered by this. Liberace was absolutely the godfather of their brand of showmanship, and they were always very just surprised at how gracious he was to them. Siegfried told me that Liberace taught them how to read a Las Vegas audience. He told me that he taught them how Vegas is different than every other audience because here audience is on tour and you've got to be stationary and put on the show of your life. All those sort of nuances were part of that. And

Joe P: 9:55

they were great friends of

Jonathan Warren: 9:56

Liberace had very big admirers of his because of that.

Joe P: 9:59

Now that you

Jonathan Warren: 9:59

mentioned

Joe P: 10:00

it, now I can see liberace in Siegfield and Roy.

Jonathan Warren: 10:02

Absolutely. They came to Las Vegas off a cruise ship or? Yeah, they started on a cruise ship, I understand. And also eventually landed in Monaco. So their first big cat show was in monte Carlo. And they had a cheetah named Johnny the Cheetah. Johnny the Cheetah smelled the kitchen in the Summer Sporting, which is the showroom there in Monte Carlo. And ran off through the audience. Which caused a huge commotion, but it was also a huge hit. they were a huge hit. So they were a big hit in Monte Carlo, and they also were signed and realized that Las Vegas was a place to go. Soon after, they were here. That was 1967. they're here in 1970.

Joe P: 10:37

that how their show ended also?

Jonathan Warren: 10:40

Ended, how do you mean?

Joe P: 10:41

With a loose cat?

Jonathan Warren: 10:42

Oh, more or less. Something similar. But they always had loose cats. Cat was always loose. They always had, when I saw their show back in the early Eighties, there was a giant tiger on a shelf above

Joe P: 10:52

my head.

Jonathan Warren: 10:53

There was always cats in the showroom.

Joe P: 10:55

About Liberace's

C0227 Camera Interview: 10:57

7th

Jonathan Warren: 10:58

In the What specific did he take under his wing? There were a lot protégés that he actually took under his wing that were musicians, pianists. Guys like Jamie Redfern Australia, lots of people who became performers. Most famous of them Siegfried and Roy, he gave advice to, I wouldn't say it was so much he took them under his wing, but he certainly gave advice to them that they appreciated, and I was told that directly by Siegfried. Under his wing, I would say the most famous of those was Barbara Streisand. In 1961, he sees her singing in a bar in The west village. and ultimately she's recruited in 1962 to play the opening act. to be the opening act for liberace's show in las Vegas. And She until 1964, I believe. By that time was quite a hit. And was recruited from there to play the starring role in Funny Girl. There was a lot between

Video Sep 17 2024: 11:46

opening

Jonathan Warren: 11:46

up for Liberace and becoming In 62 when she comes here her show is not taking off, so to speak. The opening of the show is not a hit and they make a few adjustments. Liberace winds up doing the opening number and then introducing her so the crowd realizes that she's something he's recommending, not just somebody who happens be there. In 1973, he said I had to sell her on the value of glamour. And, she obviously picks it up. because she's quite glamorous by 1964 in Las Vegas. In the show she looks fantastic. and she's glammed up, and they're doing a great show, and it's a big success. Yeah, but she evolves in Las Vegas for sure. I think Las Vegas had a big impact on her. and Las Vegas, if you're going to talk about the Las Vegas Strip,

Joe P: 12:25

the personification of the

Jonathan Warren: 12:26

Las Vegas Strip in my book is always going to be Liberace. He is the reason Las Vegas looks like Las Vegas. There are a lot of other influences, including Knievel who was a huge influence influence when I was a kid here. If you're not going to do his voice.

C0227 Camera Interview: 12:40

No,

Video Sep 17 2024: 12:41

don't

Jonathan Warren: 12:41

I don't do a Liberace

Joe P: 12:43

I'm doing it then. Don't be offended. Cover your ears. He said of Barbra Streisand,"I had to get her out of those miserable tablecloths and into some some proper fashion."

Jonathan Warren: 12:54

he didn't say say that.

Joe P: 12:55

Who said it?

Jonathan Warren: 12:57

The one who said, tell her to stop wearing tablecloths." Yes. was Mr. Blackwell. He was the sartorial critic in the LA times and other places. He was sort of Joan Rivers

Joe P: 13:08

before Joan

Jonathan Warren: 13:09

He's the one who said, tell her to

Joe P: 13:10

stop wearing tablecloths.

Jonathan Warren: 13:11

did she do that? Ultimately, yeah she dressed it up. I don't think she was phased by what he said, by the way. She was, as strong personality as she is now. and I don't think she was phased by that at all. When she was first signed in Las Vegas, the critics panned her. And he was one of the critics who Mr. Blackwell was a sartorial critic, so he's he is, of course talking about how she's dressed. Others also panned her. Basically because she wasn't fitting the Las Vegas sort of show. She wasn't glamorous, she wasn't dressed up and whatnot. But her talent was undeniable. And even though people weren't applauding, and even though the newspapers were haranguing her, and even though the riviera Hotel was telling Liberace in no uncertain terms to get rid of her, what he told them, this is a quote. He said, this, he said,"She will be one of the great stars of our time. The woman is a mix of Fanny bryce, carol burnett, and judy Garland." Fanny Bryce? Yeah, she actually, leaves

Joe P: 14:06

to star as Fanny Bryce

Jonathan Warren: 14:08

Funny Girl. Yeah. There you go. He, yeah, absolutely. So he nailed it, and everybody else was wrong. And what, when he first signed her to the show was through his manager Seymour Heller. and Seymour was not convinced about her. He said, she's not stage ready. And Lee said she can learn all of that. He said, but her pipes, meaning her voice and her comedic timing are dead on. So knew that when he saw it. right? And so, he knew that was going to work, and sure enough, he was right.

Joe P: 14:36

She's, he did have, all the, she was that combination especially in those early days. We give Colonel Tom Parker a lot of credit for doing similar things to for Elvis. To Elvis, maybe. But I don't think it really clicked until Liberace went to go see a young rock and roll hayseed

Jonathan Warren: 14:59

Elvis.

Joe P: 15:00

what advice did he have for him?

Jonathan Warren: 15:03

Yeah, so in 56, a lot of people think Elvis ended up in Las Vegas in the 70s. He didn't. He planned his career around Las Vegas and it's obvious when you look at the history. and he's very smart about it. The colonel of course is a very calculated guy who is understands a lot about the business and how to get things done as everybody knows. Whether good or bad. The Elvis, though, also was wise beyond his years, I think, in determining what was going to be popular. And he comes to vegas in 1956. He's 21 years old. He tried to come earlier. In fact, as soon as he signed the Colonel, which was only about six months before that, they tried to come to Vegas, but he was only 20 years old. He couldn't even check into a hotel room on his own. The town didn't want him yet. and So, they postponed that. And he the Colonel books him for six months later, or so, in Las Vegas in april of 56. Elvis comes in, and he's playing with a orchestra at the last frontier. Across the street from liberace by that time. at the at the, Riviera. And Elvis comes in, and he's got a 13 day gig, but he bombs. And by the third day they're about done with him. And the reason he bombs though is not people think of the elvis that we know later. it's not that show at all. And he's not the Elvis we know later. He's very young. He's 21. 21 year old rock and roller out of the south right? So he's, his style. is very much rockabilly and gospel. He's got Heartbreak Hotel, but he doesn't have Hound Dog yet. He's got he doesn't have the dancing style yet that gets him in trouble on TV later. He doesn't have quite the vocal style that he gets later. He doesn't have the costuming at all yet. It's very much those two tone suits that he would wear, and this sort of thing, when he first comes to vegas. The Colonel Tom Parker asked liberace to come to the show and critique it. And he sat in the audience, watched the show, came to see them afterwards, and the famous quote was,"The act needs more glitz, kid." Elvis 21, Liberace 36 at the time hit it off. And Elvis came to Liberace's show, and they did some interaction there on the stage. And so they did a bunch of photo ops together, and this sort of thing. and they became friendly and they knew each other for many years after this. And they were neighbors in Palm springs for a while as well. On display in Graceland, there's a dune buggy, a glossy black, shiny, glamorous dune buggy that Elvis owned that he bought from Liberace. And so that was in Palm Springs, when everybody was driving dune buggies. One time liberace had Elvis and a few other people over for dinner. and the Liberace had bought this black dune buggy and he hung a chandelier in it, of course. and Had it all glossed up for the street. And Elvis saw it and loved it, and he bought it. And he took the chandelier out, But otherwise it's the same, yeah, funny stuff, but, Elvis comes to Vegas at that point and Liberace that's the main advice he gives him. But he picks up a lot of other advice in Las Vegas from guys like Freddie Bell and the Bellboys, and from Roy Hamilton Sr., the R& B singer, who had sung at the Moulin rouge, which had just closed down. And he picks up the dancing from Fred Bell, as well as some other technique. can and the song, and Yeah and and also yes, he dances like Elvis before Elvis. And Elvis saw him at the Sahara hotel. And also asked Freddie if he could record the song that Freddie was singing. Elvis knew the song, but he knew a different version of it, and Freddie had rewritten the lyrics. and it was Hound Dog. The original version was sung by Big Mama thornton in Tennessee, and it was and Elvis had heard that version. that was written for a woman to sing. different lyrics. And it was really raunchy, so it was hard to put on a record. But Freddie had rewritten it, so it's these benign lyrics that we know now that Elvis sung. Elvis asked him if he could record it, Freddie said yes, Elvis recorded it, sold billions of copies, and three months later, that's the song he's opening with everywhere. It's also three months later, when he goes on the Milton Berle show, where Elvis starts dancing the way we know him to dance. And he picks that up from Freddy in Las Vegas, and he does it first time, he does next time he's on television. And that's a, It causes a commotion. you know they're everybody goes crazy. And then he goes on to the, from there the Ed Sullivan show and they're like, don't film him below the waist. So, that all comes from Las vegas. so, Elvis Learned a lot in Las Vegas. A good amount from Liberace, but also from others, in 1956. The other thing that i think people don't realize he picked up here, the Colonel picked up, was that the reason Liberace was such a hit was that he already had a national audience. National, not just a few states, not just one area, not just one genre of music. And so this national audience was coming in because he had been on television. So even people who weren't so much big fans of the music might come to the show just because they know the guy. So they'd see him, before they even come to town they know he's playing here. And they're coming straight from the airport into his show. So the Colonel's going, realizing that this is because he's got a national audience. So he realizes got to make sure Elvis gets a national audience right away. Doesn't do it with television, but right after he leaves Las Vegas, he accepts his first movie role. Over the next 13 years, he makes 22 movies. Becomes really, a matinee

Joe P: 20:02

idol, and takes that audience back with him into Vegas in 1969 with a vengeance man into the International Hotel. I love that. Had you not showed me, the Liberace outfits, which I'd seen on television. I've read stories about that. I wasn't old enough to remember, but he's the first guy that's looking into the camera and winks. And home audiences are and said I freak out because they think he can see them through the television. Yeah,

Jonathan Warren: 20:32

so there's a phenomenon that happens there. Liberace is the first major star to look into the camera crossing that third wall, I think they called it, at the time. Everybody told you don't look at the camera when you're on television. That was, the technique. It Was you don't look at the camera, and that makes the audience feel like they're getting to watch you from a special place, and this kind of a mentality. And Liberace had seen a fair amount of it. He carefully watched. other performers on television, and he knew of one named Korla Pandit. And Korla Pandit was an organ player. Supposedly a Punjabi Indian organ player in Los Angeles. And he would play these haunting tunes on the organ. And he would wear this turban with a diamond hanging off of it. and He looked very dreamy eyed and he'd look into the camera and women would swoon. And it was just a phenomenal thing. And, he was a big hit. And he had gone on vacation. He went on vacation actually when Liberace was getting on television and he copied that technique of looking into the camera. And he definitely knew Korla Pandit was the one doing this. And he definitely copied that technique from Korla. Korla was not nearly as big a star. This was a technique Liberace picked up from somebody else, and did it himself, and then the wink is all his. and that just was absolutely a phenomenon. There's even cartoons written about this. Like in newspapers. Where there's a guy sitting on a couch with his feet up. And his t shirt, watching television. And his wife is coming downstairs and she's all dolled up with earrings on and everything, and she says,"Get dressed, Liberace is going to be on in five minutes." in five minutes. had many people tell me that their grandmother always got dressed because knew it wasn't the case, but she felt like he could see her.

Joe P: 22:28

Nobody gets dressed to fly on a plane anymore. Nobody

Jonathan Warren: 22:30

Exactly. wrong with this world? It's a fun era, right? Yeah, that was a whole phenomenon he caused then. And that, that had a lot to do with his ability to take that audience with him for many more years. He's only on TV in 52 and 53, but he's the most syndicated in the country, at 220 stations. Virtually every TV in the country in 1952 and 1953

Joe P: 22:52

had Liberace on it.

Video Sep 17 2024: 22:53

it.

Jonathan Warren: 22:53

Everybody knew this guy. Where would I know I saw him

Joe P: 22:56

him on television. when I was a child. Two

Jonathan Warren: 22:59

especially if it's a show. First of all, reruns of that show which will continue continue to rerun forever,

C0227 Camera Interview: 23:05

is still around. Exactly.

Jonathan Warren: 23:07

out there.

Joe P: 23:07

And then

C0227 Camera Interview: 23:07

I'm

Jonathan Warren: 23:09

show.

Joe P: 23:09

I'm sure it's in color though.

Jonathan Warren: 23:11

It's in color? Yeah. If it's in color, it's the English show. So there was a Liberace show in london, and it went for six months. And that's the one where he comes out of the door and he sits at the piano. He's always got a guest it's in color. He's in these great costumes. It's more of a intimate setting. Here he's at a piano there's a studio audience, but you don't see them and it's a smaller setting. a lot of comedy with it also, which was, it's a variety show. But it always starts with a musical number by him and he's always in an elaborate costume and, yeah, classic Liberace. That's a really popular, those are really popular cuts from that show. Our audience in Great Britain is younger because that show was in the 60s, his show in the US was in the early 50s, so it was a different audience. Coming through the collections here, and at Thriller Villa and other places it's about 25 percent Britons coming right off the plane to see Liberace. And they're more my generation, or early Generation X, than the baby boomers, which is what otherwise would come. His original fan base in America is long gone. They'd be 140 now. So it's all new now. It's all, he's got quite the following among Millennials and even Gen Z people in tune to pop culture and the genesis of a lot of the things that are well known in pop culture. That come from Liberace.

Joe P: 24:29

Has a very trademark style that's a lot of glitz. Yeah. But when I would see him on television, it looks like he's wearing a Victorian outfit with ruffles on the sleeves, ruffles down the front, a big bow tie, a vest, a jacket on top of that. But when you showed me how that works, that's not 1, 000 buttons. buttons

Jonathan Warren: 24:51

That's one zipper. Yeah, yeah, usually that's the case. And also, jumpsuits with quick releases in the back. And, he would change costumes so fast. You still see people remark about this. He could change so quickly, and It's partly because they invented in his costuming, some of the techniques that they still use today, for quick changing like that. And people often thought, even though he would sometimes change live on TV, come and go backstage and come back out. And they thought it was special effects, even though it wasn't. Because of how quickly he could do it. it The costumes were designed for it. Yeah. We still have those costumes. I loved them. They were so incredible, so ornate, but that's what really rocked me. This This is Elvis. This is Liberace who influenced Elvis. He, Liberace influences, of course, a lot of people in costuming. and there's influences on Liberace. I can tell you early on, he was influenced by Gorgeous george, the wrestler. Gorgeous george is now is recognized as the first pop culture icon. And he was the heel in wrestling that everybody loved to hate, so Gorgeous George would show up, he'd be in a floor length cape with rings on every finger. and, he'd have his hair all pressed and curled back. and he'd have, and he dyed blonde. He'd have He's a big, huge, macho dude. He'd wear a pink robe with feathers on it and stuff, and he'd come strutting in all haughty and he'd have a assistant in front of him spraying perfume, because, It stinks in here," just snobbing it up, and, the crowd loved to hate him. And that fashion idea of his with the floor length capes, especially, Liberace picked up on. And so did James Brown. The earliest floor length cape of Liberace we have is from 1956. 1956 And And that's the red, white, and blue one like this.

Joe P: 26:32

Speaking of red, white, and blue Evel Knievel's got quite a story about how he secured his contract at Caesars Palace. It's a series of prank phone calls to Jay Sarno. That's excellent. Yeah, he calls up and says,"This is Evel Knievel, I want to jump your fountains." And Sarno says,"Never heard of you kid." Hangs up. So Evel starts to call as if he is somebody. Hi, it's John Williams from ABC's Wide World of Sports. I understand this Evel Knievel kid is going to jump your fountains. What time does that start? Never heard of it." Click. Hi, it's Tammy Smith from Sports Illustrated. My boss wants me to come there and take pictures of Evel Knievel jumping on New year's Eve. What time does that start? Yeah, once Evel secured the spot, he understands this is not a dirt track. This is not where they're going to see you jump between the heats and the main event. This is Caesar's Palace. It's the real deal. And as Liberace would have probably told him, Put some glitz on it. on it. Yeah.

Jonathan Warren: 27:27

So he has a special suit made, red, white, and blue, at that point. Before that it was not. Yeah, I remember it. And that that was absolutely the biggest thing going on. you didn't hear about anything else at the time. It was absolutely huge. And that whole technique, that he employs there to get that done, is so showmanship. It's it so mirrors so many stories of Liberace and other stars that I know who were promoting themselves in the early days that. and just incredible work just having the audacity to okay, I'm just going to call this guy up and I'll be so and I'll get the, I think it's the press and we'll just get this going. It's just incredible. And, it absolutely worked for him. I remember all sorts of stunts that Evel Knievel was talking about doing or doing in Las Vegas in those days and if he wasn't doing it, he was planning one and talking about it and just the conversation would be just crazy. It would just be fever pitch on all the news stations and the radios and ev everybody will be talking about it. The ultimate showman outside

C0227 Camera Interview: 28:32

of the showroom.

Jonathan Warren: 28:34

Just so my people know. Yeah. Without Liberace, there's no cape. Jewelry, furs. Liberace

C0227 Camera Interview: 28:41

didn't invent the

Jonathan Warren: 28:42

furs,

C0227 Camera Interview: 28:42

first one.

Joe P: 28:43

man,

Jonathan Warren: 28:43

to another level. Yeah, Was this the same furrier they used, to think? I don't know. It's a good question we should check Anna Natis is liberace's furrier. Ray Lenoble was married to Anna Natis. Ray Lenoble was a furrier from way back and he when Anna Natis moved to Las Vegas in 1974, I want to say might have been as early as 72. She marries Ray Lenoble and she was a fashion designer. Ray quickly realizes she's even better than he is at fur. She manipulates fur like nobody's business. And she creates these works of art, and everybody's got to have it. So Ray, who was a very smooth, very slick salesman and promoter, changes gears and builds her brand instead. So sometimes you get the labels that are Ray Lenovo and Anna Natis throughout. the, So if you see those labels, you know that's who he's working with. Wouldn't surprise me at all that fur studio. was the Dunes Hotel and the riviera. They had two locations in those days. She got Don King as a client. That's why all the fighters were wearing furs. And, in the fur era in Vegas, if you had fur, it had to be Natis. That was the thing. There's a casino. even, the movie Casino. And the furs in that are made by natis. They were worn by Sharon Stone. Sharon stone's playing a real person. The real person was Jerry Rosenthal. Her furs were made by Natis. So, it goes way back in Vegas. Yeah, Anna Natis was absolutely a one of a kind. And No, she passed away two years ago. She was a very dear friend of mine. she was phenomenal. The most intuitive person I ever met. You'd be in a room full of people

Joe P: 30:10

with

Jonathan Warren: 30:10

Anna Anna Natis. She'd not only see them all, she'd see right through them all. She was incredible. shared

Joe P: 30:17

They shared a jeweler, mordecai.

C0227 Camera Interview: 30:19

Yeah, sure.

Jonathan Warren: 30:19

Mordecai did a lot of work on Liberace's jewels, for sure. In fact, he's one of the latest ones. Mordecai cleaned the jewels for me in order to have them go on exhibit at the Paris Museum of Modern Art, So, that's a good claim to fame right there. Liberace's jewels, there are no less than a dozen jewelers who claim to have made his most prolific jewels. none of them are signed, which is astounding. so we don't know. We don't think mordecai made the primary. ones. We know he made some of the lesser known pieces that weren't so much the stage pieces. We know he made those. He's also got, there's a, for instance, a black piano ring I know he made. There's a black piano ring that's amazing that I know Mordecai made. It's confusing also because there are, over the years, for example, there's several different candelabra rings. that Liberace wore. So when you say candelabra ring, it sounds like one ring. It could be more than one that we're talking about. So I'm not saying anybody's lying. I'm just saying that it's just, it's more nebulous than it seems when you're trying to figure out who made these things. We've had them put under electron microscopes to try and find signature. And we're talking about rings that have 1, 500 hours to make, and nobody signed them. There's one that very much looks to be looks like it was made by the designers who made the brooches and a few of the rings for Queen Elizabeth in London. Liberace says that ring, said that ring was made by her jewelers. It's possible. We don't know. It's not signed. It looks like their design. It's their style. but don't know. It's hard to wrap your head around them until you see them in person. Because of the sizes. I didn't.

Joe P: 31:54

Are they still in Paris?

Jonathan Warren: 31:55

No, they're here. We have them in a safety deposit, but we show them from time to time. It just has to be the right situation. Insurance wise and everything else to do it. But we do exhibit sometimes. The other thing is, I think one of the things also that where I also notice, there's comparison between Knievel is in Vegas when these guys are not performing, they were dapper as can be, it wasn't Liberace in capes on the street. He just dressed really nice when he's out and about. And so did Evel Knievel. I think people miss that a lot of the time because they're so distracted by everything else. Else. But this guy was a dapper dude, man. Evel Knievel. He'd get dressed You can't beat him when it comes to the collar. If you like your collar. Hey man, you got your collar right? here. But, no, even even earlier on there's some phenomenal photos. I was like, people, He and Evel, they were really noticed. I think Evel Knievel was a dapper dude, man. He liked to get dressed.

C0227 Camera Interview: 32:44

Yeah,

Jonathan Warren: 32:46

So true.

Joe P: 32:47

We're building a new museum, or we're bringing our Evel Knievel Museum from Kansas to Las Vegas. And so when we say we're moving, it's not like a U Haul and a bunch of cardboard boxes. Yeah, it's a little bigger than that. We yeah, we're refurbishing a building, an ancient, not an ancient. If I call it ancient, it'd make you feel old because you might remember the Mission Linen in operation.

Jonathan Warren: 33:11

Yeah. I do actually 20 or three. Right. What is that? Is it linens for

Joe P: 33:16

hotels? Yeah, it was linens for hotels. Exactly. Okay. Tablecloths, sheets, napkins, sheets, towels, yeah, all that.

Jonathan Warren: 33:23

Yep.

Joe P: 33:24

I'm just trying to give people an understanding that it's not going to close Friday and open saturday. So we'll be closed down for a while we build it up. And that's a bigger space, isn't it? Yeah,

Jonathan Warren: 33:36

much bigger.

Joe P: 33:37

So you're going to double the size. yeah. Plus it's got a pizza place attached and a mothership coffee's going to be there. And, the pizza place is by Branden Powers who invented Evel Pie. Okay yeah. But his new place is called Heavy Metal Pizza. yeah, It'll be good. And you've got room to do some great exhibits and interactive stuff, don't you? yeah, Yeah, we'll have a virtual reality jump where you, Jonathan, can strap on a VR goggles And sit on a real XR 750 motorcycle like Evel Knievel used, all painted up. And then wind blows in your face when you accelerate, backs off when you're not, or you know when you turn a corner. That's great. Left and right. And you get to experience what it feels like,

Jonathan Warren: 34:24

a big

Joe P: 34:25

rumbling platform, to jump over 17 police cars.

Video Sep 17 2024: 34:29

Awesome. Love

Jonathan Warren: 34:31

Love it.

Joe P: 34:34

Anyway, we're moving and I was just amazed at your collection. me your collection. collection is at the Hollywood Car Museum?

Jonathan Warren: 34:43

Yeah. We're sitting in the Hollywood Cars Museum. This is the section we call liberace garage and this space is donated to us by the Hollywood Cars Museum. They partnered with us a long time ago 2016, really, to do this. And they've been a wonderful partner for the Liberace Foundation. We wouldn't have been able to bring the cars into the public without them. And there's such a phenomenal thing to see. Liberace's cars are an extension of his costumes as were Evel Knievel's motorcycles. And so, they were on stage. These are primarily stage cars

Video Sep 17 2024: 35:15

would,

Jonathan Warren: 35:15

He would arrive on stage in a car driven by a chauffeur, of course. there you have it. Yeah. But it was a real, It felt like a secret invitation to come see the Liberace collection. During

C0227 Camera Interview: 35:29

like, earlier Liberace's

Jonathan Warren: 35:30

lifetime, he had a museum. Yes. Yeah, so the Liberace Museum was open in las vegas beginning in 1979.

Joe P: 35:36

1979.

Jonathan Warren: 35:37

Yeah. And, He, prior to that. he

Joe P: 35:40

had the collection

Jonathan Warren: 35:41

viewable at different places, primarily at his home in the Hollywood Hills at one point. They made him close that down too many people started showing up. he, yeah, it was residential. Yeah, Exactly. And so he eventually he had a, He also had an interior design company in Los Angeles and he would show he had his, really over the top antiques there. But it was an antique shop and he didn't want to sell anything. So he would put sold signs on everything. Everybody would just go see it. It's Basically a museum. In 79 he finally opens a, legitimate museum in las vegas.

Joe P: 36:14

And

Jonathan Warren: 36:15

the Liberace Museum. and remained open until 2010, 2010 actually, in that location. Blew my

Joe P: 36:21

mind. So it's not an old dusty trinkets where you're going to find a gremlin cage

Jonathan Warren: 36:26

No, nothing like that. It was Chopin's piano? Yeah, it's the real deal. We have 18 pianos. eight, eight of his stage cars, 18 pianos, probably 36 chandeliers another probably 28 candelabras about a hundred costumes and capes, the Liberace jewels his Emmys, his just hundreds of awards of appreciation from all sorts of places he raised money for, and Yeah. all of that sort of thing. thing. own treasures, He has, his collection he has silver that was owned by Valentino. He has crystal that was owned by Napoleon. He has china that was owned by John F. Kennedy. All within Liberace's collection. So, it's things with its own provenance. Even before, he used to say, I don't really own these. I'm just taking care of them. So it's a tremendous collection. And as far as show business goes especially when you include the historic documents in the show business. collection. It's one of the largest, longest time spanning, and most important. show business collections in the world. So it's a phenomenal collection. and it's not all in, it's not, it's impossible to show it all in one place. Crated, it's about 15, 000 cubic feet. Exhibited it's the ground floor of the Smithsonian. You would, especially because of documents, if you were to really show everything you've got, you really get into this huge exhibit, and it's just mind blowing. people see it. And they, because it's, it speaks to that influence of Liberace over those years. He's got a long career that spans a lot of different eras, and has a lot of different seasons of its own that he goes through. And a lot of stars go through those seasons. There's all of this influence through that time span that you see picked up by others, as you go through it. And, to be honest, I only learned a lot of that because of these stars who come and see his collection and tell me that they were influenced this way. Or, they'll see one of our historic photos here that they're in, and they'll tell me about what was happening in the photo. Dionne warwick was one of those. who told me the story of one of our photos here. So this is just, it's incredible, what happens. And there's so many people still around who were involved with Liberace when he was performing. You still get a lot of people who can tell stories, so we

Joe P: 38:41

record them as fast as

Jonathan Warren: 38:42

we can. We get the stories as much as we can. I know those people are like, on their way out. Yeah, I know it's the same with Knievel, right? You to grab those people while you can,

Joe P: 38:48

We got to

Jonathan Warren: 38:49

get

Joe P: 38:49

this

Jonathan Warren: 38:49

museum open. Yeah.

Video Sep 17 2024: 38:51

Now! Yeah.

Joe P: 38:52

Now's better than tomorrow.

Jonathan Warren: 38:53

And then, yeah, but the guy's When he sets up that jumping the fountains, that's an incredible story. And that's great. That's just a phenomenal thing. And there's going to be people around who were there then, that you can interview. You'll find them,

Joe P: 39:07

your museum. In Las Vegas. And

Jonathan Warren: 39:09

find them and they'll tell you the stories.

Joe P: 39:11

And on his way out, his last idea was also a big Vegas deal. What was that? He proposed to jump out of an airplane into a haystack. I remember that. One of 13 haystacks. Yes, and you'd bet on which one he was going to land in? Yeah, had his spleen removed so he could jump out of an airplane. I don't know what that has to do with it. think

Jonathan Warren: 39:31

remember that. I remember that, yes. I remember my brother explaining to me why he had his spleen removed.

C0227 Camera Interview: 39:36

it were. Yeah. That's the,

Jonathan Warren: 39:39

I was like, could you do anything for more to get everybody watching? you? I don't

Joe P: 39:45

think Vegas, I don't think the authorities were too crazy about him jumping out of an airplane. Yeah, it was over. Yeah. Oh man, was that after the

Jonathan Warren: 39:54

river? Yes. It was the final straw. That was the last straw, as it were? Yeah, yeah, as it were.

Joe P: 40:02

So to speak, I remember that one. I remember

Jonathan Warren: 40:05

that. going to put a bunch of haystacks in a

C0227 Camera Interview: 40:08

the big lot and bet which one he

Jonathan Warren: 40:10

lands in, oh my god. Yeah. we're so

C0227 Camera Interview: 40:13

glad that

Jonathan Warren: 40:13

mentioned how and why it's not on display Because it's just too massive to be on display. There's no way you could afford to rent the Smithsonian. Yeah, and also, what we want to do is like any museum that's personality driven, you want to tell that story with those artifacts, right? With the artifacts we have, we can tell that story probably seven or eight times at different locations. It doesn't serve well the legacy to have it all in one place. You can have multiple locations. We have exhibits right now uh, there's one in uh, Spokane, Washington we've got, celebrating the 50th anniversary of the World's Fair there because Liberace played it. There's various different places across the country, but we've played the Met Gala in the Metropolitan Museum of Art New York. We played the Paris Museum of Modern Art. We played the, the WIC in Fort Lauderdale with a costume amazing costume exhibit there for six months. So, different things like that. And it gets it out more, and more people see. And also, different price points. We have a free exhibit at the Met Gala. Resorts World right now in the lobby of the conrad Hotel. It's not a big exhibit, but it's one of Liberace's pianos, candelabra, some art.

Joe P: 41:21

And it's free, know, it's in the lobby.

Jonathan Warren: 41:22

So, we like to be able to get it out there where people can see it for nothing as well as the really substantial exhibits where you're paying a ticket to go see like this one. Do you feel like you're competing with yourself when you exhibit for free at a

Joe P: 41:34

casino and then try to convince them

Jonathan Warren: 41:36

it's a teaser. It'll,

Joe P: 41:38

If anything, if, they

Jonathan Warren: 41:40

if they understand it, comprehend it, if they want to see more, they're going to find the rest. and pay to see it, yeah. we do get, where, is it?

Joe P: 41:49

about that?

Jonathan Warren: 41:50

they asked for it.

Joe P: 41:51

It's been there since it opened.

Jonathan Warren: 41:52

so it's three years now that it's been there and, four, four years now since it's been there. no, we're happy to see it to keep it there. Right now it's just the Resorts World, inside inside the lobby of the of the Conrad hotel there. Right now, also, we still have we've had for the past three years the offices of the Clark County Commission, in Ross Miller's office, commissioner Ross Miller's office. He created in his office, he created a retro Las Vegas hotel room style designed conference room out of his office. And so you go in there and suddenly you're back in the fifties in vegas. And it's completely liberace ed out. It's got a Liberace costume we've got a whole exhibit in there. Big painting of Liberace in there. All from, it's all from the Liberace Museum collection. And So that's a major exhibit. That's public space. Anybody can go in there. You just got to tell them you're coming and set an appointment to go see it. But they'll have you in it to check it out. It's a great exhibit that Ross Miller did. and Ross's term ends in, I think in November so soon he'll be gone. and we're going to pick up that and, take it back to Thriller Villa in here and we'll see where it goes next, but that's our two main ones in Las Vegas that are free right now. And other than that, it's Thriller Villa where our main tour is which is the former home of Michael Jackson, which we also run. And that property houses, uh, the major Liberace Museum collection in storage there, in secure storage, then also,

C0227 Camera Interview: 43:18

uh,

Video Sep 17 2024: 43:18

here,

Jonathan Warren: 43:19

at Liberace garage, of course

Joe P: 43:20

where we have the cars. Okay, I'm so glad Thriller Villa is open to the

Jonathan Warren: 43:24

public. It's, I wouldn't say it's open to the public. I wouldn't wanna share if I'm looking at the archives or if this is someplace somebody could get tickets to. Yeah. insane. Yeah, you can get in, it's not open to the public, but you can book it and we'll take you through on a tour and yes it is possible to do, just go to everything that we have to offer someone. liberacemuseum.com so

Video Sep 17 2024: 43:43

It's

Jonathan Warren: 43:43

it's easy to go there and book it.

Joe P: 43:45

My daughter spent this summer in Las Vegas as an intern at a variety show. Which was a great experience. She spent 90 days here. It was a three, three month internship, not a day under 100 degrees.

C0227 Camera Interview: 43:58

here

Jonathan Warren: 43:58

was here for the the hottest part of the year,

Joe P: 44:01

Yeah, But one of our highlights was going through Thriller Villa with you. That was a blast. She was raised on piano, so yeah,

Jonathan Warren: 44:09

Yeah, that

Joe P: 44:09

she may have seen some of her music has Bizt's on it. but doesn't know, she doesn't know Bizt music, but, and Gershwin's piano, it's like Liberace's collection, not a collection of Liberace stuff. yeah.

Jonathan Warren: 44:24

But the portrait, ah, the portrait, and the,

Joe P: 44:28

the fireplace, a portrait

Jonathan Warren: 44:30

yeah. maybe Liberace commissioned it. It was commissioned by the John Ascuaga Nugget in Reno, which was

Joe P: 44:36

Okay, good. I'm so glad. I was worried about his ego. It was that big.

C0227 Camera Interview: 44:39

ha! Yeah, in 1978 they

Joe P: 44:41

they had that done. And

Jonathan Warren: 44:42

it hung there until they closed and I believe, 2007. And Nugget Yeah. and Yeah.

Joe P: 44:48

My wife worked there. there

Jonathan Warren: 44:49

Yeah, yeah, that's the spot. Yeah. Yeah. So

Joe P: 44:53

that painting came from their lobby. To the Liberace

Jonathan Warren: 44:56

So

Joe P: 44:57

So that's a great piece. It's on the hearth in Thriller Villa now. Yeah.

Jonathan Warren: 45:01

Over the fireplace. Yeah, yeah, WrestleMania one. you know, He had a lot of appearances in wrestling shows over the years, beginning probably around 1959, 1960.

Joe P: 45:21

And

Jonathan Warren: 45:21

He's in a lot of the ad wrestling wrestling shows. He would

Joe P: 45:25

be in, it. he would interview

Jonathan Warren: 45:26

people. He'd be a subject they'd interview. Yeah Just,

Joe P: 45:30

showman on site. Yeah.

Jonathan Warren: 45:31

thing all

Joe P: 45:33

I was just telling a person today I'm going to go record a podcast. about Evel Knievel. And he

Jonathan Warren: 45:40

he was too young to remember. He

Joe P: 45:42

doesn't know. And I said, he's Knievel. And I said, he's a daredevil a daredevil, he jumps over stuff.

Video Sep 17 2024: 45:47

stuff.

Joe P: 45:47

Oh, I remember. Is it like wrestling? said,

Video Sep 17 2024: 45:50

does she

Joe P: 45:51

shares a fan base. yes. Yeah, it does share a fan base, yeah. and The thing, that's the term, that people have forgotten is daredevil. I think that these guys, nowadays, when people have these successes, they they create a show or an attraction, that's, that they calculate very well. They know it's going to be a hit. And they, there's no doubt about it and they know they're going to pull it off because they do all this incredible calculations ahead of time that they did not have in that era. and so, there wasn't, there isn't a daredevil anymore. There's performers now. but in those days, he's hitting the ramp doing, I don't know, 60 something miles an hour, I don't know how fast, but fast, wondering if he's going to make the other side and hit it's just, all, it feels about right. That's exactly right. He did not have a speedometer, but he had an assistant goes, stand there and go, looks

Jonathan Warren: 46:49

right, you're good to go. There you go. We'll just eyeball it. It'll be fine. the Caesars fountains. It's as if there wasn't such a thing as physics in 1960s. It was there and available. But there just wasn't anybody doing this for this kind of thing. There was so much of that sort of thing in showmanship in general where it was just like, let's swing at it and see if it works. And you have hits and misses. But the daredevil concept just really, I think personified that yeah. In that era, because daredevils were they just drew all the attention. They'd take all the oxygen out of the room when the news was on. It just had to be, everybody was

Joe P: 47:24

gonna see if this actually happened.

C0227 Camera Interview: 47:26

The people, Now

Jonathan Warren: 47:27

no

C0227 Camera Interview: 47:28

what happened,

Jonathan Warren: 47:29

everybody was going to say, I always knew he'd make it, or I always knew he wouldn't.

C0227 Camera Interview: 47:33

it.

Joe P: 47:33

No matter what. That's true. Yeah, They did. They did. They do that with all

Jonathan Warren: 47:39

stars too. I always knew they'd make it, or

Joe P: 47:41

I always knew they wouldn't. That was the nature of the problem. But there was no way some of those things you'd walk

Jonathan Warren: 47:46

from. How do you drop a mile Yeah, exactly. Or get up from those heinous wrecks

Joe P: 47:55

heinous wrecks. and walk away. Oh, you watch some of those in slow motion. It's oh, no, I can't even watch that. No, I know every week I'm watching the same

Jonathan Warren: 48:06

over and it's way old news now. I've

Joe P: 48:08

Like I've been watching the video yeah. for seven years and every Saturday I'm like, oh god, you watch it. I can't watch this anymore.

Jonathan Warren: 48:16

Yeah.

Joe P: 48:17

Ah, that was crazy.

Jonathan Warren: 48:19

collection that's

Joe P: 48:20

on display

Video Sep 17 2024: 48:21

on

Joe P: 48:21

was

Video Sep 17 2024: 48:22

kind of

Joe P: 48:23

by

Jonathan Warren: 48:25

at 50, 000 a week. and now you don't have 50, 000. Underwritten it more than that, actually. By the time he opens his museum, he's making a lot more than that. I don't think people know but his highest, his biggest paydays were not even back then, even in inflation adjusted dollars. By 1981, he's making tens of millions of dollars in a year for less than half the year of work. He's given everything away as he earns it. And he spends, he loves to spend, but it's usually on the show that he's investing in. And yeah, so we don't have what he left the museum was relatively small because it held its own. It was able to sell tickets like mad and people wanted to come and he kicked it off and showed up and people were there to see him, too. And of course it was a big hit. It was always in the top 10 attractions when it was open, it went flying off a cliff in the recession of 2008. So by 2013, it was totally out of money. And it had closed and he's gone too.

Joe P: 49:23

There was this whole, point where it just about had completely gone scattered. to the wind. And, uh,

Jonathan Warren: 49:29

managed to keep that from happening, but yeah, with no endowment. There's no endowment. What are you going to do, right? You got

Joe P: 49:34

You got

Jonathan Warren: 49:34

give me five on that because ours did scatter to the winds, and we had to go get it. Oh, man, that's difficult. Yeah.

Joe P: 49:42

Is there anything missing? Is there a holy grail out there? Elvis took off his tiger belt, threw it out in the crowd. Nobody knows where it is. Wow. See, that's something to crowdsource.

Jonathan Warren: 49:52

because somebody's going to know. Yeah, and then Evel's got one where's his Caesar's Palace motorcycle? Got the helmet, got the suit, but the motorcycle disappeared. Good question. yeah. So, holy grail for us, not anything that we don't already have. We do have just about every important artifact of Liberace. There's some out there that are fantastic that we don't own. but most of those I learned about because I met the collectors. And and I just went, wow, what an incredible piece. I'll give you an example. There's a great piano ring. that's silver and turquoise, owned by a collector here in las vegas named John Altemus, who's a good friend of ours. And the piece is a silver, sterling silver ring. And it's a piano ring, like his other piano rings, but the piano is sterling silver and turquoise, which is very Nevada. So in Nevada, it's Navajo, so, he had this thing made at some point or somebody gave it to him. I don't know. a lot of these are gifts, so you never know. And it was it belonged to Terry clarkson at one time, which was one of the valets of Liberace On Stage. And he gave it to John Ultimis. and Ultimis has this piece and I'm like, that's just a phenomenal piece. It's such a Nevada, Las Vegas, Liberace piece. It says it all in that one piece. So I told him, I want to show that the next time we do the jewels, and we will. So, I wouldn't say it's a holy grail for us, because we, Liberace We're fortunate that he put all of this together and kept it together. He sets it up as an institution, with the goal being to provide support to the performing and creative arts. And that it would earn income to do that. And it still does. not, we're getting back there. We're getting up there. It'll take a while to get back to that. But he did, it did for many years do that. Because he kept it all together like that, he put it all in an institution, and then made sure it was professionally run as much as he could. It was never perfect. It was always controversial. It did go bankrupt at one point, but it's still together. It's still together. So that has allowed to maintain these and major artifacts. And hang on to them so that we're able to do that. And so the major costumes, the major jewels, the major cars are all still in the collection. That has to be a major commitment by you personally. yeah, Yeah, it's definitely labor love. It's definitely of making sure we, we want to make sure that this legacy lives on. And also, that it can, we believe it can recuperate to a point where it's self sustaining. It's getting there. And then to the point where it's constantly, on an ongoing basis promoting, providing support to the performing arts. And it'll do that ultimately in a self sustaining way through licensing primarily. You guys have done well with

Joe P: 52:24

licensing. very much.

C0227 Camera Interview: 52:25

can't

Jonathan Warren: 52:25

Knievel popping up in licensing

Joe P: 52:28

and I recognize it when I see it. When I see the motorcycle toy, I'm like, that's brilliant. Good. And

Jonathan Warren: 52:34

Great

Joe P: 52:34

uses, great setup. You had it, right?

C0227 Camera Interview: 52:37

yeah of course.

Jonathan Warren: 52:38

Are you kidding? Do you I even had a red, white, and blue minibike. Now that you mention it. Three and a half horsepower. Briggs and Stratton.

Joe P: 52:47

My parents are gone now, so I can say yes, I did

C0227 Camera Interview: 52:50

can't jump in.

Jonathan Warren: 52:50

No shocks on this thing. Yeah. oh man. But that era was really something else, yeah. Where do you see your collection in five I would say more refinement of the same kind of a use. Continuing to improve the spaces we occupy and obtain more spaces that are more conducive to the kinds of exhibits we'd really like to put on. It's hard to exhibit costumes and jewels, for example, because of environmental concerns. So we keep them at Thriller Villa. The reason Thriller Villa is great for the costumes is that it is, of course, completely, the air conditioning is critical. But also, the way we have them there, even the exhibited ones are in a completely, almost completely dust free environment. It makes it so that the care is much easier. These casinos, let me tell you, everybody says, oh, don't you want these things in a casino? These casinos look

Joe P: 53:49

immaculate. Yeah.

Jonathan Warren: 53:51

And anything you got in there has a coat of dust on it, an inch thick in three days. It's not nearly as clean as it looks.

Joe P: 53:59

days. I might be exaggerating slightly, but only"It smells like

C0227 Camera Interview: 54:03

cigarettes"

Jonathan Warren: 54:04

when they don't

Joe P: 54:05

it's,

Jonathan Warren: 54:05

the dust. In the casinos, there's dust like you wouldn't believe. They're constantly dusting for a good reason. That's an

Joe P: 54:14

hurt that it's an underground

Jonathan Warren: 54:15

yeah, exactly. that bomb shelter People are going, what happens if they get past the alarms and actually manage to get down here? And I'm like, good luck finding your way out, and and then not getting shot when you do so.

Joe P: 54:28

Yeah, I don't have a lot of, I don't have a lot of tolerance for thieves and people that will wreck everything you work years to create. As a museum guy yourself and

Jonathan Warren: 54:37

a Las Vegas person, you've read the news, probably since I've seen you, that the Neon Museum is moving across the street from our museum? Yes, indeed, Yes. How excited are you? Oh, it's going to be phenomenal. Honestly, I think the leadership

Joe P: 54:53

there knows what they're doing. I think

Jonathan Warren: 54:55

the rendering that went out there is probably less than accurate compared to what they will end up doing. I think they're really, they really know their market.

Joe P: 55:04

What do you, hang on, what do you mean, what do you mean it's less than accurate? Oh, I think that, that was a computer generated, of course, rendering of a building that's not quite there yet.

Jonathan Warren: 55:12

And I think when they actually have finalized it all, I think it'll be even better. Oh, even better. Yeah. it's not like the menu, where you're like, oh man,

Joe P: 55:22

the avocado burger looks great. It looks so good in the picture. Yeah. What is this? No. I think that was

C0227 Camera Interview: 55:27

That was more of an idea piece

Joe P: 55:30

but

Jonathan Warren: 55:30

actual is even better, I believe. and It's gonna be, Yeah, no, it's gonna be phenomenal. Vegas signs lit up 10 stories in the air. You could put those whether they're inside, outside, up on top, or down on the bottom, they're all phenomenal.

Joe P: 55:47

Yes.

Jonathan Warren: 55:48

But they're going to have enough room to really, I think I would suspect that they're going to have enough room to really elaborate on each of those properties and the stars that put them on the map. and the whole genre

Joe P: 56:04

that goes with, for

C0227 Camera Interview: 56:06

Yes.

Jonathan Warren: 56:07

Rouge sign which was the first integrated hotel casino in Las Vegas before it was legal to integrate. So it was which is the real reason it shut down. There's a whole lot of stories about the mob shutting it down. None of that's true. But the whole other story, I'll tell you another time. But the Rouge was that first of its kind. And, It's a phenomenal story. There's other properties too. Every property is a story. and they've got the signage that's so iconic of those properties

Joe P: 56:34

are no longer there.

Jonathan Warren: 56:35

So where better to tell a bit of that story. And I think now they'll have the space to do that. I hope they do. But whatever they do, I think it's going to be, I think it's going to be amazing. And I think that I'll tell you right now, if they want to put any Liberace in there, we're all over it. I'll be happy to. We license them now, they've got Liberace in the, first of all, they got a Liberace sign, a vintage Liberace sign that was the first one they ever lit up. It was donated by us, but it was a wreck of a sign. And they, that was from the museum. the original museum. And they lit it up when they got a donor to do it. And then there's another several signs that were part of the Liberace Museum, the neon was broken on those signs. And they have those in their show called Brilliant in the North lot. They have it set up where they light up

Joe P: 57:20

all those really old signs using projection

Jonathan Warren: 57:22

Yeah. and they do it to music. And they light up our signs in there. And they play Liberace playing Strangers in the Night. and they project him onto his piano sign playing in the piano sign. So it's really good. And so we licensed that for years now. with them anyway, and I would love to do more with them. So yeah, I hope they I hope they want to do some Liberace. We'd be happy to do it. And again, I don't think that takes away from our exhibits that just makes people want more of it. I, my opinion is you know what, everywhere they go in Las Vegas, they ought to see Liberace. This guy is the reason it looks like it does. And

Joe P: 57:56

I don't think you can go wrong having some Evel Knievel

Jonathan Warren: 57:58

some major locations like that. Give them a taste of this stuff and have them go, oh my god, and this was

Joe P: 58:04

when? 19, what's, they'd be astounded. I don't know. I am. People just don't know and that, and you combine that with

Jonathan Warren: 58:12

licensing you guys are doing with the toy and everything like that. it's just great stuff.

Joe P: 58:15

Yeah. I'm in town for the

Jonathan Warren: 58:17

souvenir convention. That's a good one.

Joe P: 58:20

So grateful for you for sharing

Jonathan Warren: 58:22

thanks for coming to liberace Garage.

Joe P: 58:23

it's been a real treat to to meet you and

Jonathan Warren: 58:26

it's going to it's be

Joe P: 58:28

fun when you got this museum

Jonathan Warren: 58:29

too. We're going have a to good

Joe P: 58:30

Okay, Thank you. Excellent. And for my friend there, Happy landings.

Heather: 58:38

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe. It's our mission to preserve and present the legacy of Evel Knievel. So, if you have an idea for an episode or a guest, or have a suggestion to improve our show, just drop us a line at Joe@thrill.Show.

Evel Knievel: 58:59

I just think the Evel Knievel way.

Heather: 59:04

We leave you with the encouraging words from the book of Deuteronomy. Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid. For the Lord your God goes with you. He will never leave you or forsake you. Until next time, happy landings. You like to fly to the seat of your pants? This is where you

59:38

belong.