Can I talk a little bit more about Evel and Jay? I've got some proof for how close this bond was. I was talking with the family, the kids, yeah, I'd really like to interview Evel. He agreed to the interview, it was over the phone. They're like, yeah, he's not doing so great, he's in an oxygen tent. I've got to tell you, just like the first First thing, like, yeah, this is Evel, but I'm like, I've never heard someone with that much presence. And I'm also going to tell you, I'm not ashamed to admit it. I've never been this intimidated by a man in an oxygen tent, 2000 miles away from me. Evel Knievel inspired millions of us with his courage and perseverance. We're building a museum so you can relive those memories and be reinvigorated with that spirit of bravery. My name is Evel Knievel. I'm a professional daredevil. Along the way, we meet people involved in the life, the times, and the legacy of the King of Daredevils. Here with their stories is your host, Joe Friday. Welcome to the Thrill Show from the Evel Knievel Museum. This is Dr. David G. Schwartz, author of Grandissimo, the First Emperor of Vegas. And I think all of our listeners and Evel Knievel fans are going to be super excited to read this book. I know I picked a copy up on my way to Las Vegas last time and read it all in one setting. It's a shame to pay 400 a night for a hotel room where you don't even enjoy the spa or the pool, but you just sit in your room reading a book, which is what I did. Dr. Schwartz. Yeah. Dr. Schwartz is the, you correct me if I'm wrong, because this may be updated, but the director of gaming at UNLV. Oh yeah, that's long overdue. I'm the ombudsman of UNLV. The reason that I was so interested in Grandismo was because I spend every week telling a story about Evel Knievel and Caesar's Palace. It's got its own display that's about, I don't know, 10 feet by 10 feet, and it's got the original motorcycle there and some authentic leathers and helmets. It's really cool. And I tell the story about This man named Jay Sarnos who had a, or Sarno, who had a vision of a luxury hotel casino in Vegas. Evel Knievel happened to be there because he was there to see an amateur boxing pro that was from his hometown. Rick Rouse, I think. And that's why he was there. I don't think he could afford a room there at the time, but he could afford a beer down there at the hotel bar. And one of his buddies said, you know, they don't have a, they don't have a Dean Martin like, like the Sands has. They don't have a Sammy Davis Jr. like the Dunes has. They don't really have an entertainment draw here. This place is so new. You could do those wheelies like you did back home and do stunts. Jump over stuff like you did those lions back there in Washington. And he says, the more beer I drank, the smaller those fountains got until I decided, I think I can make those fountains. I'm going to call the owner of this joint and convince him. So can you tell us about how Evel Knievel went about convincing Sarnos to do that? Yeah. So first he tried calling them. And didn't really get anywhere. Sarno was like, yeah, not, not interested, not interested. Then he started putting on different accents and pretending to be reporters, pretending to be different people, like, Hey, is it true? This is going to happen. So Sarno now thinks, wow, there's really interested in this. You know, this guy is somebody, so he says, fine, we'll do it. So it's kind of, it's very interesting. You know, Sarno himself is a very, very colorful character. And I think he really met, um, a kindred spirit in Evel. For sure, for sure. That's the perfect term for it. They were, I can't imagine these two together. I can't imagine Las Vegas, the town, surviving with these two together, but they did. And that launched Evel Knievel's career after Evel Knievel wrecked, broke both of his wrists, both ankles, his femur, and his pelvis. He was hospitalized. J. Sarno had been watching from his penthouse office upstairs along with his two young sons. Yeah, they were on top of the Portico share right up there. They were up there watching that. Yeah. And so the kids are convinced that man just died. I can't believe we just saw a man die and we knew him and we liked Evel Knievel. Yeah. Sarno says, no, he's okay. He was moving as they loaded him on the ambulance. But to reassure you, I will take you to the hospital and, and show you. It takes a long time for him to make his way from the Portico to the, His car and the whole time he's thinking, wow, I signed this kid for two dates, New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. And he hatches a marketing plan to bring everybody back to Vegas to watch him make it. Gets to the hospital. Knievel says, Oh, thank God you're here, Jay. You got to get me out of here. I don't have insurance. And Sarno says, listen, kid, I've got this covered. I've got a plan. I'll cover the hospital bills. You just play possum and I'll pay off the medical staff you. And they won't tell anybody other than what I pay the doctor to say out in front of the hospital in a white lab coat, which is, yes, America's favorite daredevil, Evel Knievel, is in a coma in the hospital. And we are assured that as soon as he wakes up from the coma, He's going to try this again. Huge, huge. What a humongous help Sarno did in hatching that whole plan for Evel Knievel. Yeah. And maybe, and maybe not paying the hospital bills. You never know with Jay. Yeah. So can you tell us, I'm just so fascinated by this book. I'm flummoxed to whether he's a hero or a villain. I can't figure it out, but Could you just tell us how he started and how he got the idea? Yeah, Jay was an interesting guy, born in St. Joseph, Missouri in 1921, so came of age during the Depression. His family was pretty poor immigrants and had served in World War II, kind of, you know, not on the front lines. But did his part for the country and also made himself a little bit of money there. Got out of school, finished college, and then went into business with his friend from college, Stan Mallon, setting tile, you know, tile business. And that in first in Miami, then in Atlanta, and that later graduated to building buildings. So apartment buildings, which then became. motels, which then became hotels. And that's how he came out to Vegas. And he decided, I'm going to build a great hotel in Vegas, which is where Caesar's palace came from. He's a compulsive gambler or a DJ. He called himself a degenerate gambler. He's a degenerate gambler, degenerate compulsive gambler. So I assume he's doing that in the army. Yeah, somewhere around St. Joe or at least in college in Missouri somewhere. Yeah. And Vegas is the gambling mecca and he shows up and it's, in his words, Awful, dull, plain, which is amazing to me. Dacus had everything that he liked and he hated it. And a lot of people, and this is the thing about Jay, he never really took no for an answer. A lot of people, if they go somewhere and they don't like it, they're not going to come back a second time. Not only did he come back a second time, he basically revolutionized the whole city with Caesar's Palace. So it's kind of like the best, I think it's like the most famous negative guest review in Las Vegas history, where like, yeah, hated it, gonna come back and build Caesars. And one of the ways he was able to do that is he had a good friend, Uncle Jimmy, Jimmy Hoffa. So that's when you have friends like that, your horizons get a little bit wider. Was Hoffa the gambler too? Is that how they were friends? Hoffa was absolutely not a gambler. So Jay was a party guy, liked to go out with a lot of women, even though he was married. Hoffa, almost like a Puritan, very devoted to his wife, really focusing on one thing, the union over everything. I think he was a model. If anybody's a fan of the show, The Wire or Frank Sabatka, that character, like just very focused on his union. They were actually introduced through Stan Mallon's brother who was an attorney in DC who knew Hoffa's attorney and Hoffa wanted to invest in some projects and said, Hey, my brother's involved in this thing. Why don't you do this? So that was how they got interested and they really hit it off. And it's interesting because on one level, they had so little in common. So Jay loved to play golf. Somebody once asked Jimmy Hoffa, like, why don't you play golf? His response, I love this, 30 seconds in the morning to do 20 push ups is all the exercise a man needs. They don't need golf. That's nothing. So he was that kind of guy, like very plain guy. Again, like maybe an inspiration for Ron Swanson from the show Parks and Rec. I'm doing like a pop culture tour here. Um, yeah, that's just how I see him. And basically though, they both cared deeply about what they cared about. For Hoffa, that was the union. For Jay, that was the casino and having this lifestyle, owning the hotel, owning the casino. And this is very creative. He comes up with an idea of a hotel, a casino that will treat gamblers the way gamblers ought to be treated. But, it's not a knock against Sarno to say that banks are not loaning money to casinos. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Basically, casinos were lucrative, but very risky, just like they are now. If you're a bank officer, there's really not a lot of good things that could happen if you lend money to a casino. Maybe they pay it off. It's very likely that they don't. So you couldn't really get money from banks. So we had about 10 million, a 10 million loan from Jimmy Hoffa and the Central States Teamster Central States Pension Fund. And for those who don't know so much about him, Jimmy Hoffa was, of course, the, the Leader of the Teamsters at this time, early 1960s. Went to jail for that, later got out and then disappeared. That only got him about halfway there. He had to get the rest of the money pretty much from every gambler up and down the East Coast. Bookies, guys who liked to gamble, pretty much anybody who they could find, they would get to invest. That is a chunk. Yeah. And then he starts to make his dream reality. Did he take a trip to Rome? Yeah, he actually did go to Rome for inspiration. And my favorite thing is he says, what do you want your casino to look like? He goes around the corner into St. Peter's Square and said, my God, this is it. The Vatican. So that kind of tells you everything about his morality or whatever. Like, yeah, it's the Vatican, the center of Latin Christianity, home of the Pope. Yeah, I want my casino to look like this. So that's, that's pretty much him. And then I assume he hired all the union contractors that he could since that's how it's funded. Yeah. But he was a compulsive gambler at the same time. Yes. Did these guys get paid or did he waste all that money away? No, they got paid. They got paid. He was a compulsive gambler, but when he was the casino owner, he was making money. That's, I guess that's how you have enough money to blow 50, 000 in a night. You know, he was making money, which was even more money back then than it is now. But yeah, he was making a lot of money. He, and he made money for a lot of people. He also spent money. Yeah. And besides being a golfer and an amazing. He was also an astute business name in the sense that he took every detail of the construction under his realm of responsibility. Yeah, he knew what he liked, and I guess he was egotistical enough to figure this is what everyone else likes. And he was actually right. So he really said, well, I like it here. This is what I want. I want to have a lot of food. I want it to be really comfortable. I want the cocktail waitresses to have these skimpy outfits and a lot of people like that. Yes. And on those construction details, though, one thing that was in your book was about the minutia. He designed his own sunscreen. And I had a question about that. They didn't make a sunscreen block. Good enough for Jay Sarno. This is a common construction technique to keep the heat out of the windows, especially in a desert, but he didn't like any of the blocks. So I think the construction manager or the architect throws up his hands and says, If you don't like them, come up with something better, which he did. Yeah. So he designed it. It's called Sarno block. And they were actually getting royalties from this because other places were using it. So yeah, it's called Sarno block. And that's what the had been actually little treat for you. There's a piece of it right there. Um, I got that for one of the, one of Jay's kids, because if you've seen Caesar's in last 20 years, they took all that down off the original tower and re skinned it. Yeah. And yes, that's a genuine piece of the Caesars Palace facade right there. Oh, Dr. Schwartz, that makes my day! I, just as an aside, I've been trying to draw that block because I'm making a little mock up, you know, this little wind up toy of Evel Knievel, the first action figure made after. I'm trying to make a background, a backdrop for one of those shows. Yeah. So he builds Caesars and he loses, right? The problem was nobody could get along. He thought he owned the place. Nate Jacobson, who got the money, a big chunk of the money, thought he owned the place. Jerry Zarewicz, who was a casino manager, although he wasn't licensed, thought he owned the place and ran the place. So basically the three of them couldn't get along. Nate went and opened the King's Castle up in Tahoe. And again, Jay, instead of saying, you know, I learned my lesson, Vegas isn't for me, well, I'll build another casino. Which he does with Circus Circus. Circus Circus is a great idea, but it's on the other end of the spectrum. One's luxury and one's affordability. As he originally saw it, Circus Circus was going to be a high end casino. And he saw it as being like this adult circus, and there was a lot of stuff in it that didn't make it. It was only later that they shifted it to be more budget, although it's been 50 years, so it looks very budget. But yeah, originally it was, and the other problem he had, he couldn't get enough money. Jimmy was in jail. He didn't have that faucet coming from the Teamsters. So he basically had to build only a casino and not a hotel, which was pretty rough, which is why they struggled a lot in the early years. And then later got the loan from the Teamsters to add the hotel tower. Gotcha. That was an outrageous idea. Trained monkeys will fetch cigarettes. They'll hold their face in their hands as you lose coins down the slot machine. Yeah. And then once it hits the C note. Or the jackpot. Yeah. The squeal, right? Surprise. Yeah. Yeah. They'll be all happy. Yeah. And I describe that in the book in his own words as he's describing it. It just shows you he had this very vivid image of what he wanted there. It's almost psychedelic in some ways. It's very surreal. Yeah. Very surreal vision. And it's like, wow, this, this is something else. Yeah. Well, one thing I think he was really right about is I bet those circus acts that were there performing. Night after night really did like having a home rather than living on the road. He was right about that. And he was an incredibly intelligent man who also had incredibly bad judgment in a lot of, in a lot of ways. One example of that would be his idea for the topless shoeshine girls at Circus Circus. Yeah. Gotta have the topless shoeshine girls. The gaming commission really fought on it. They're like, no, this is going to make us look bad. Can't have the topless shoeshine girls. He never gave up the good fight for that. And he gets ousted from that casino, right? Yeah. So this is an interesting story. As a friend of Jimmy Hoffa, he pretty much, he was a target of the federal government. Hoffa notoriously had a huge rivalry with Bobby Kennedy, who then becomes attorney general. They literally had a Get Hoffa squad, just throwing everything they could at him and all of his associates. But even after Kennelly wasn't the Attorney General, even after he died, they kind of kept on grinding on after him. So basically, now he's been audited for about 10 years straight. They haven't found anything, but they're like, yeah, we know there's something here. I mean, there is skimming going on. And it's kind of funny because later on his defense, there's skimming going on. The mob is skimming money. His defense wasn't, I would never skim. That's dishonest. That's a violation of my integrity. His defense was, We're not making enough money to skim. Like, how can you skim if there's nothing to make? We're not making enough money to skim. So there's no skim, which is, which is just, I mean, that tells you all you need to know about him, very practical guy. So basically he's under investigation. IRS agent says to him, you know, if you take care of me here, I can end this and I've, I can also get you this refund that you applied for, and if you don't, I'm gonna. Put you out, take you out in handcuffs. We're going to close this place. All these people are going to go out of work. So Sarno, in his recollection of it, agreed to pay the bribe, which ended up being the biggest bribe in IRS history. And he went on trial for it. His attorney was a young Oscar Goodman, who later, of course, was famous as a mob lawyer and the mayor of Vegas. It was an incredible trial. Is he the one that's nudging his lawyer Goodman and saying, Say this, call this witness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give me a character witness. Yeah, you wanted the character witnesses because his partner Stan, who I knew, who was just a, like one of the nicest people I've ever met, just a total gentleman all the way through, just wonderful guy, Jay was abrasive. He was not, I don't think anybody, and I talked to dozens of people who worked with him, who knew him, college fraternity brothers, nobody ever said. He was a nice guy. He was a gentleman. He was a mild mannered guy. A lot of people really admired him. A lot of people had a lot of fun with him, but you never really hear that. So of course, people will say, Oh, Mr. Mallon, such a gentleman, so nice. When they call the people for Jay, it's like, well, you know, he's, he's got a decent reputation, I guess. He's been nice to me. So it wasn't really what he wanted out of that. Ah, where's Knievel when you need him, man? Yeah, yeah. Was Knievel around, or was he in and out between Caesar's Palace and later, or did he just kind of reappear after retirement to pal around with Sarno? They were together, you know, off and on during the 70s. So he would stay, Jay, in this period, had this two story suite at Circus Circus, and Evel would stay there with him. Or he had a trailer that he stayed in. He would stay there or stay at Jay's for the night. Yeah, we restored that trailer. Oh, that's awesome. There's, yeah, there's stories in there. Can I talk a little bit more about Evel and Jay? Yeah, man. I've got some proof for how close this bond was. So I've got a couple of things. So first of all, don't know the year off the top of my head, but I was talking with the family, the kids, yeah, I'd really like to interview Evel. Well, we'll see what we can do. He agreed to the interview. It was over the phone. I'm like, yeah, he's not doing so great. He's in an oxygen tent. He's over the phone. I've got to tell you, just like the first, first thing, like, yeah, this is evil, but I'm like, I've never heard someone with that much presence. And I'm also going to tell you, I'm not ashamed to admit it. I've never been this intimidated by a man in an oxygen tent, 2000 miles away from me. He's just telling me, he's like, well, this guy. This guy, um, can I use some not safe for work language on the podcast? He's like, this guy, so and so, he's a cheap little asshole. This guy, cheap little, this guy, chicken shit cheater. Chicken shit. Just like totally unloading. It was great. And he really, but like the last, the last thing he said to me was, I don't have too much longer here, but I know when I get to where I'm going next, Jay's going to be the first one I see. And I'm like, man, I'm like, of course, I'm like, oh, Evel, you're indestructible. Don't talk like that. You know, you're, but yeah, I mean, he was right. It might have been one of the last interviews he gave because he did pass away a few weeks or months after that. Yeah, he was very, and he was very open about how much he loved Jay. They really had this bond in the gambling. And so when there's the stories in the book about all the stuff that they're happening, getting cheated on the golf course, that came straight from Evel. He's describing all this to me, you know, where he pulls a gun on somebody. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, you know, you cheat him. That's one thing. You're like, cheat me. And they brought out the sheriff came out. Ralph Lamb is another Vegas legend. And, you know, so. So that's kind of a fun thing. Like Ralph Lange, Evel Knievel, and like, yeah, we don't want any trouble here. Just, uh, you know, you know, these guys are, and it's the famous thing. Like, you know, these guys are cheats. Why do you play with them? Well, it's the only place I can get this kind of action. I've got to play with them. They're out golfing and they bet on sports. There's, there's a book about how they, they banter back and forth about sports in the back of the big red, I call it big red, but it's, it's the living quarters that he hauls around on a semi truck. Yeah. Uh, then. They go gambling, gambling. What do they play? Craps together or cards? Yeah, craps, craps. It's sports betting. I mean, Jay played cards too. Mostly craps though. I mean, that was the big, big action thing. And yeah, sports betting was huge for them too. But craps is a big, big thing in the casino. And they're loaning the value enough to buy a house to each other back and forth, right? Yeah. I mean, that's what I love about them. It's like, they just had this, they would just get wiped out, but it's like, they did it together and it was, it was just incredible. And yeah, like money didn't really mean much to them. Yeah. And this earring, he, what do you call it? Collateral. One of the casino managers demanded to have his earring as collateral. And he's like, well, if you want to gamble, you got to give it to me. So he did. Yeah. That was from him again, that was from Evel personally. Yeah. He was still pretty salty about that 30 years later. Yeah. He was still pretty not, not happy with that guy and he ended up not losing everything that night. Yes. Going to collect his collateral. Yeah. Asshole. Yeah. Yeah, he was, that's gotta be one of my, one of my favorite experiences of interviewing him was just, again, I don't even know how to put it into words. I'm not that eloquent, but just his presence. Yeah. I don't know how to just, I've, there's very few human beings I've met in my life where you feel that like. Damn, you know, that's Evel Knievel. And again, it's not like I'm starstruck, you know, I'm out in Vegas, celebrities, I've interviewed billionaires, I've interviewed all kinds of people, so it's not like I'm totally starstruck. But yeah, Evel is something else. That one I'll admit I was starstruck. Yeah, that is so cool. Evel passed from pulmonary fibrosis. Which is why he was on the oxygen. Sarno passed away before that. Yeah. What, what year was that? 84. Oh, that was long ago. Yeah. A while ago. And he was still thinking about them and he still kept up with the family, you know, so that really, they really had a bond. It's like a little, uh, Easter egg, uh, in the book, because that's the reason that Drew read the book was Knievel, and then you get to read the name and it's like, Oh, wow, they went golfing and gambling and sports betting. Were they contemporaries? What were they? Evel was a little bit younger. Evel was a little younger than him, about, I think, 15 or 16 years younger than him, I think. Okay, so back to the casino scheming. Sarno was not done yet with building the best casino ever. Yeah. So he dreams up the grandissimo. When he's about to go on trial, the gaming board, gaming commission in Nevada makes him lease Circa Circa. So you know what? If this guy gets convicted, the headline's not going to be casino owner. goes to jail. It's like former casino owner, which makes it all better. Former casino owner goes to jail. So they're, so he'll lease it out. Um, he's getting steady money from it. He doesn't really have to do anything. He's gambling. He's doing all this stuff, but he has the idea that he is going to build the biggest hotel, the biggest casino ever built, 6, 000 rooms, Total luxury shopping mall inside all this stuff and he just can't get the money for it. And it's kind of slips further and further away from him as the years go on. It's a shame because basically this was the mega resort about 10 years before they started building the mega resorts. Was he able to go back to because the circus circus or Caesar's palace to have fun and party. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, he would gamble there all the time he lived at, you know, one of the agreements of the lease was he was able to live at Circus Circus in 1983. Circus Circus Enterprises, the company that was leasing it wanted to go public. And they had to get rid of Sarno as a landlord, because again, it was not a Wall Street kind of guy being in the same sentence with Jimmy Hoffa. You're not going to be. So that was when they bought him out. And that was, he was no longer an owner in any way. He did lose that suite, but that's, that's when that happened. And his health begins to deteriorate. And I enjoyed part of the book where he calls, uh, Somebody that came up with South Beach diet. Is that right? Yeah. And he tried a lot of these fad diets and he's like always trying something because he, I mean, he just loved to eat, you know, he would eat and then one I described in like one or two pages, like this is his daily regimen. Wake up, eat, talk on the phone, eat, play some golf, eat, do this, eat, go do Caesars for a gourmet meal on the ride home, come back and stop at Wendy's and get a lot, one last hamburger and go to bed. This guy. Did like to eat quite a bit. Well, it's one of the many fantastic quotes was him on the phone with this celebrity author that came up with a fad diet. And he says, I'm going to lose 30 pounds in 30 days and you're going to help me do it. I'm going to pay you a thousand dollars per pound. And she explains, I'm not a dietitian. I'm, I'm really a legitimate author. And he says, I'm talking about 30, 000. You want to come get it. Yeah, yeah, that's wild. So, I would imagine between Unions, mobs, mafia, uh, and then gambling the whole, the whole seedy part of the United States of America. Are they, are they putting out hits on him? Cause he's not repaying. Cause he's living pretty large driving a Rolls Royce. I mean, he, they, and they paid off the teamster loans. I mean, that's the ironic thing is those loans were paid off. He didn't really have any trouble from that part of that part of the United States. It was more of the. IRS and the justice department who didn't like them. Oh, okay. So the mafia is really not trying to, the, the Kansas city mafia here, they were major part of that skimming operation in Las Vegas, but they're not necessarily after Sarno or his job. No, he can stay there as long as they get there. They need someone like that. Yeah. I mean, they want someone like that. So yeah, that, that is not a problem for them. Eventually he got divorced. And he's kicked out of Circus Circus, he's kicked out of his two floor suite, has declining health, and eventually dies a sensational death, if not a fantasy death. Yeah. And maybe we'll save that for the readers to discover on their own. Yeah, okay, that's great. I think it puts his life in perspective, and actually reading, so writing the story, my idea was, this man dies, these are the circumstances of his death, this is where it is. How does he get there from where he started? So that's the story I was trying to tell with the book. Well, You must've told it well, cause even I got the gist of it and it was not, uh, okay, we'll leave it for the reader. It's inspirational and amazing. Amazing. Just absolutely amazing. I'm still flummoxed as to what this, what this guy is. Is this a role model or is it a backwards role model or somebody not to model your life after? What lessons do you take away from the life of Jay Sarno? By writing the book and being his biographer, I've got to say, I wanted, I trust the readers to come to their own decisions about him. Can I look at you and say, yes, as a husband, this is what I aspire to be? Absolutely not. On the other hand, can I say this was somebody who had courage in his own way and believed in his own convictions and got out there and wanted to make this little part of Vegas better and did it? actually got something done. Not all of us can say that. So there's, uh, there's definitely not a lot of things that you wouldn't want to admire there, but there's things that I think anyone can admire. And again, it's up to the reader to make their own decision. I'm not saying if he's a hero or a villain, the readers can decide for themselves. Well, very similar to his counterpart, Evel Knievel too. Flawed, genius, creative, and then can stun you with bad decisions. We've told everybody they ought to get this book and they ought to, where would they get that? Um, you can get it pretty much anywhere books are sold. Amazon is probably the biggest place. Barnesandnoble. com too. Apple books, all kinds of platforms. So yeah, wherever they want to get it, they can get it. Yeah. Highly recommend it. I got mine on Audible again, because I was. on a plane and then in a hotel room. Yeah. And it's good that way too. Thank you so much for sharing your time today and especially your talents. Your writing style is incredible. You did a fantastic job. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Yeah. And happy landings. All right. See you around. Bye. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe. It's our mission to preserve and present the legacy of Evel Knievel. So, if you have an idea for an episode or a guest, or have a suggestion to improve our show, just drop us a line at joe at thrill dot show. I just think, the Evel Knievel way. We leave you with the encouraging words from the book of Deuteronomy. Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified. For the Lord your God goes with you. He will never leave you or forsake you. Until next time, happy landings. Wanna fly by the seat of your pants? This is where you belong.